• Skip to main content
  • Skip to primary sidebar

Mark Slemons

  • About
  • Podcast

Mark Slemons / February 25, 2019

LTL 103: Where Are You In The Five Levels Of Leadership

Man, we are close to two years of Leader to Leader podcasts. Next episode is the two-year anniversary. If you knew the difficulty at different points during that two-year journey, you would be as amazed as I am that I never missed releasing an episode during this time. And, actually, that’s meaningless. It doesn’t make the podcast more valuable because it’s consistent. If you consistently produce garbage, I’m not sure there are a lot of positive takeaways there. It is, however, a good time to pause and reflect. As I was doing this, I had to ask myself if what I’m doing is contributing to the growth of leaders. To understand if you are growing, you have to know the five levels of leadership and where your skills sit within those levels.

I know it sounds arbitrary to try and evaluate your leadership on a scale. And, in many ways, it’s more subjective than any of us would like. There are truthtellers, those who will gladly tell us exactly where we sit. Ask a disgruntled employee or team member. Have a conversation with your manager. Talk to someone you respect in the leadership space.

Getting An External Perspective

You will find many who are capable of not only assessing, but also providing you a “no-holds-barred” answer to your question. This could sound silly, but when I need an honest assessment of how I’m doing, do you know where I go first? My wife, Ginger. I know she’s not an expert in all things leadership. What she is though, is a master at calling out my behavior that is opposite of what I expect of others.

It’s embarrassing to admit, but I have a really good recent example of this. The other day, we were driving in some pretty heavy Phoenix traffic. The roads were wet as we have had quite a bit of rain this month. You wouldn’t think a desert would be cold and rainy, but it was. If you have been listening to this podcast for any length of time, you probably know that anyone else traveling on the same road I’m on is likely to get a rise out of me.

Seriously, I am so glad that you can’t hear what I’m thinking when I’m driving. There are very few people that I would encounter on the road that I would have positive thoughts about. I hate it and I’m working on it. It’s not how I want to live. I’m not exaggerating though, it’s really bad sometimes. Twice in two days I literally had to maneuver to avoid being struck by other cars in traffic. Not justifying, just wanting some sympathy…ha, just teasing. I’m sure I’m just as bad as everyone else.

An Honest Assessment

Now here’s a place to get honest feedback. From the person sitting in the front passenger seat. When they are wearing looks of terror, when they can’t release their grip on the door handle, armrest, dash, whatever they have reached to hang onto for dear life…then you might be driving badly. It’s funny, but you’re listening and you know you are either the driver or the one half-scared out of your wits!

Now, I’ve been driving long enough to let my habits make me a really bad driver in some instances. Huh, not supposed to work like that Mark. You should be so learned after all these decades of driving that you have become somewhat of a pro, a real driver-whisperer if you will. I’m not a horrible driver, but I won’t be in the driving hall of fame.

My loving wife took time to remind me that I was following the car in front of me a bit too closely. Do you know how she knew that? Right, because for the last 20 years I’ve been talking about the four-second rule when behind another vehicle. Do you know what you are supposed to do when the weather is bad? Dingdingding…yes brainiac, increase the following distance.

What was I doing? Following too closely. She was right. I wasn’t following my own advice. I wasn’t doing what I expect others to do (when they are right on my butt going 65 mph on the interstate). Isn’t it interesting how the story changes when you are the tailgated vs the tailgater?!

John Maxwell’s Five Levels Of Leadership

It reminded me that we all need someone to tell us what we already know. So regardless of where you are on the five levels of leadership, I want to remind you of what it means to not be just a good leader, but what it means to be a GREAT leader. So, John Maxwell has what he calls the Five Levels of Leadership. What I want to do here is to quickly go over them and then ask you to assess where you see yourself.

Level One – Position

It’s the lowest level. You got here because the role you fill on the org chart says you lead these people. A person leading at this level only has followers because they have to follow. John says “position does not automatically result in influence.” It’s very hard for instance to lead a group of volunteers if this is your leadership level. Why? Because nothing requires a volunteer to stay. If you can lead volunteers, then there’s a good chance that your skills have transcended Level One.

Virtually every leader will find themselves at Level One at some point during their career. And it’s not a bad thing. At this stage, you develop some self-awareness and understand what you need to improve if you are going to experience leadership success. When you find yourself here, John recommends that you lead yourself. How would you lead you? If you had to give yourself advice for improving your skills, what would you tell yourself?

Level Two – Permission

For the first time, relationship enters the picture. People have chosen to follow you because you have given them a reason to want to follow you. Personally, I find this to be a rewarding stage. When you find yourself here, you start to get a glimpse of what is possible when you positively impact others. That’s exciting! You won’t like everyone you lead. In this stage, the stretch is understanding how to make the most of difficult situations. Maybe a personality conflict or strong difference of opinion makes you aware of the challenges to leading those who aren’t always in agreement with you. What can you find to value in or about them? John says that when trust grows here, it often leads to respect.

Level Three – Production

I mentioned the excitement in realizing what’s possible, and Level Three is all about producing results. It’s identifying that now you don’t just impact your team, but your team is impacting the company’s customers. You are developing credibility and folks are drawn to that. You want to work with and for leaders who are able to get results. The reward for doing well at this level? Your success results in tougher problems being assigned to you and your team. It’s not easy, but it’s fun. The trust between you and your team members grows and you see the underlying motivation as a sincere desire to do what’s best.

Level Four – People Development

Mr. Maxwell sums up this level with one word: reproduction. Think about how many companies you know that have zero ability to manage succession. This level corrects that issue. You are developing other leaders, bringing them along by investing in them, mentoring them, sharing your wisdom, providing insight. You aren’t trying to make them just like you. Thank about it. You didn’t get where you are by hiring team members who all act and think like you do. No, you want the individual to come out – the unique leader that is in them to be exposed! At this stage, John says people are following because of what you have done for them personally. What are you doing to help your leaders grow today?

Most of us will be content to reach Level Four leadership. It’s an honor to see other leaders step up and take on a new role or challenge and do well, in part, because of your investment in them. It’s like when your children make you proud by making a good decision that you left to them. I relish that level of impact. There is joy that comes from seeing someone benefit as a result of you engaging in their life.

Level Five – Pinnacle

As you can imagine, you don’t get here quickly. This only happens when you have been in the game for a long time. It also won’t happen automatically. In other words, being in the game a long time doesn’t mean that you reach maximum potential. John says intentionality is required. The ultimate self-sacrifice is required: you have to be willing to invest your life into the lives of others. There’s great power in achieving this level of leadership. I don’t actually mean personal power – here, you are creating opportunities that other leaders and organizations don’t. I’ve talked before about leaving behind the resume and build your legacy. This is where legacy is built. John says that a leader at this level transcend their position, their organization and sometimes their industry.

It’s an honor to lead at this level – a great responsibility. I hope that your goal is to lead at this level regardless of where you find yourself today. John says that the goal with the Five Levels of Leadership is not to move away from one level to grow at a new level. Instead, these five levels of leadership build upon each other. In other words, Level three leaders still need to do the things that make Level two happen. They just add Level three strategies to the mix. And as they become effective at Level three, they are ready to layer on the goals of the next levels.

Don’t miss next week’s episode. I’ll share with you some ways that you can Level Up your leadership. No matter where you sit currently on the five levels of leadership, I’m proud of you! You would not have gotten to this point in the episode if you didn’t sincerely want to improve your leadership skills. You are on your way!

Resources Mentioned In This Episode:

John Maxwell’s Blog Post The Five Levels Of Leadership

Thanks for Listening!

I want to hear from you! I appreciate your honest feedback so reach out and:

  • Leave a note in the comment section below.
  • Email a question to mark@markslemons.com.
  • Share this show on Twitter, Facebook, or LinkedIn.

Listen to the show using your favorite platform: Spotify | iTunes | Stitcher | Android | RSS

Now, go lead like someone you would want to follow!

Share this:

  • Click to share on X (Opens in new window) X
  • Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Facebook
  • Click to share on LinkedIn (Opens in new window) LinkedIn
  • Click to email a link to a friend (Opens in new window) Email

Filed Under: Leader to Leader Podcast Tagged With: John Maxwell, The Five Levels Of Leadership

Reader Interactions

Comments

  1. Lelani says

    March 4, 2019 at 1:17 pm

    Thank you! Excellent.

    Reply
    • Mark Slemons says

      March 6, 2019 at 7:56 pm

      Thank you, Lelani! I always appreciate your support.

      Reply

Leave a Reply Cancel reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

Primary Sidebar

Recent Posts

  • LTL 144: Global Leadership Summit Takeaways Part Four December 9, 2019
  • LTL 143: Global Leadership Summit Takeaways Part Three December 2, 2019
  • LTL 142: Global Leadership Summit Takeaways Part Two November 25, 2019
  • LTL 141: Global Leadership Summit Takeaways Part One November 18, 2019
  • LTL 140: Consistency Revisisted And The Difficulty Of Things Worthwhile November 11, 2019
  • LTL 139: A Controversy Regarding Forgiveness November 4, 2019
  • LTL 138: The Value Of Humility And Momentum October 28, 2019
  • LTL 137: Move Past Resentment To Take Control Of Your Future October 21, 2019
  • LTL 136: Why Leaders Can’t Afford The High Cost Of Resentment October 14, 2019
  • LTL 135: Four Solid Principles Supporting Team Growth October 7, 2019
  • LTL 134: Distinctives And What Makes Us Different September 30, 2019
  • LTL 133: Responding When Thrust Into The Unexpected September 23, 2019
  • LTL 132: Building People, Teams, and Processes with Micah Rowland Part Two September 16, 2019
  • LTL 131: Building People, Teams, and Processes with Micah Rowland Part One September 9, 2019
  • LTL 130: The Labor Inspector September 3, 2019
  • LTL 129: Your Past Makes You Human August 26, 2019
  • LTL 128: Creating A Thriving Environment For Growth August 19, 2019
  • LTL 127: Overcoming Your Pain To Step Into Your Greatness August 12, 2019
  • LTL 126: Excellence: We Are What We Repeatedly Do August 5, 2019
  • LTL 125: Four Areas Of Focus To Increase Excellence July 29, 2019
  • LTL 124: What Does Excellence Look Like In Leadership July 22, 2019
  • LTL 123: Why Winning Does Not Equal Success July 15, 2019
  • LTL 122: Preventing Expectations From Producing Failure July 8, 2019
  • LTL 121: Taking An Unconventional Path To CEO With Carey Jenkins Part Two July 1, 2019
  • LTL 120: Taking An Unconventional Path To CEO With Carey Jenkins Part One June 24, 2019
  • LTL 119: Obsession, Opportunity, and Superstition June 17, 2019
  • LTL 118: The Business Of Language – An Interview With Lelani Craig Part Two June 10, 2019
  • LTL 117: The Business Of Language – An Interview With Lelani Craig Part One June 3, 2019
  • LTL 116: Why Success Start With Service May 27, 2019
  • LTL 115: To Be A Great Leader You Must Have This May 20, 2019
  • LTL 114: Now That’s A Good Question May 13, 2019
  • LTL 113: The Unintentional Impact Of Careless Conversations May 6, 2019
  • LTL 112: Some Final Thoughts On Liminal Space April 29, 2019
  • LTL 111: The Best Actions To Take During Uncertainty April 22, 2019
  • LTL 110: Getting Comfortable With Uncertainty April 15, 2019
  • LTL 109: Leading While Leaving – When It Was Not Your Choice April 8, 2019
  • LTL 108: Leading While Leaving: My Story April 1, 2019
  • LTL 107: Leading While Leaving – Things You Must Never Do March 25, 2019
  • LTL 106: Leading While Leaving – Things You Must Always Do March 18, 2019
  • LTL 105: Why It’s Good That You Don’t Know Everything March 11, 2019
  • LTL 104: Level Up Your Leadership March 4, 2019
  • LTL 103: Where Are You In The Five Levels Of Leadership February 25, 2019
  • LTL 102: I Need To Set Limits But Where Do I Start February 18, 2019
  • LTL 101: The Art of Female Leadership: An Interview With Manu Sood Part Two February 11, 2019
  • LTL 100: The Art of Female Leadership: An Interview With Manu Sood Part One February 4, 2019
  • LTL 099: Don’t Stop Thinking About Tomorrow January 28, 2019
  • LTL 098: Why You Fail To Connect January 21, 2019
  • LTL 097: Stop Toying With Dragons And Get Intentional January 14, 2019
  • LTL 096: The Definition Of Success January 7, 2019
  • LTL 095: Are You Measuring The Right Things December 31, 2018
  • LTL 094: What You Don’t Know About Stress December 24, 2018
  • LTL 093: On The Edge Of Burnout: The Indicators And How To Stop It December 17, 2018
  • LTL 092: A Burnout Tale December 10, 2018
  • LTL 091: Reducing Resistance When Approached With Need December 3, 2018
  • LTL 090: What Is Your Big Dream November 26, 2018
  • LTL 089: When Trust Is Broken (Part Two): Five Steps To Recovery November 19, 2018
  • LTL 088: When Trust Is Broken (Part One): Five Steps To Restore Trust November 12, 2018
  • LTL 087: The 180-Degree Leader And The Power Of Consistency November 5, 2018
  • LTL 086: 3 Reasons Why Marketing Matters In Leadership October 29, 2018
  • LTL 085: Catch Me If You Can: Detecting Lies When Negotiating October 22, 2018
  • LTL 084: A Massive Advantage As You Prepare For Your Next Negotiation October 15, 2018
  • LTL 083: Wake Up: Lessons From An Uber Driver October 8, 2018
  • LTL 082: Leading When Disaster Strikes October 1, 2018
  • LTL 081: Great Questions: The Key To Growth Part Two September 24, 2018
  • LTL 080: Great Questions: The Key To Growth Part One September 17, 2018
  • LTL 079: Endurance, Entrepreneurship, And Patience: An Interview With Brandon Bruce Part Two September 10, 2018
  • LTL 078: Endurance, Entrepreneurship, And Patience: An Interview With Brandon Bruce Part One September 3, 2018
  • LTL 077: The Question You Should Never Ask When Meeting Someone New August 27, 2018
  • LTL 076: Authentic Relationships As The Basis For EPIC Conversations August 20, 2018
  • LTL 075: Powering Through Discomfort To Authentic Connection August 13, 2018
  • LTL 074: Adapting To Change August 6, 2018
  • LTL 073: Acquiring A Positive Mindset July 30, 2018
  • LTL 072: Assess And Plan To Avoid the Pain Of Inaction July 23, 2018
  • LTL 071: Stop Acting Like The Smartest Person In The Room July 16, 2018
  • LTL 070: Wilting From The Inside Out: Get More Of This Critical Element! July 9, 2018
  • LTL 069: This Ability Will Determine Your Success As A Leader July 2, 2018
  • LTL 068: Reflect and Respond: Don’t React Part Two June 25, 2018
  • LTL 067: Reflect and Respond: Don’t React Part One June 18, 2018
  • LTL 066: Questions That Will Reveal Your Emotional Intelligence June 11, 2018
  • LTL 065: How To Improve Your Emotional Intelligence June 4, 2018
  • LTL 064: On A Scale Of Zombie To Oprah Rate Your Emotional Intelligence May 28, 2018
  • LTL 063: Sleep Facts You Can Use May 21, 2018
  • LTL 062: A Great Response To An Offensive Comment May 14, 2018
  • LTL 061: Recommit To The Battle Against Discouragement May 7, 2018
  • LTL 060: Do You Have Control Of Yourself April 30, 2018
  • LTL 059: Community Service: It’s Not Just For Hardened Criminals On Parole Anymore April 23, 2018
  • LTL 058: The Battle Against Self-Limiting Beliefs: An Interview With Val Brown Part Two April 16, 2018
  • LTL 057: The Battle Against Self-Limiting Beliefs: An Interview With Val Brown Part One April 9, 2018
  • LTL 056: Four Steps To Restore Calm After Losing Your Job April 2, 2018
  • LTL 055: I Have Some Bad News… March 26, 2018
  • LTL 054: A Leader’s Response To Abuse: An Interview With Marty Liccardo Part Two March 19, 2018
  • LTL 053: A Leader’s Response To Abuse: An Interview With Marty Liccardo Part One March 12, 2018
  • LTL 052: Why Consistency Is King March 5, 2018
  • LTL 051: Failure Isn’t Final February 26, 2018
  • LTL 050: Journey From Work Site To Corner Office: An Interview With Tom Jackson Part Two February 19, 2018
  • LTL 049: Journey From Work Site To Corner Office: An Interview With Tom Jackson Part One February 12, 2018
  • LTL 048: Influence Anyone In Seven Minutes Or Less February 5, 2018
  • LTL 047: Maintaining Momentum When Harassed By Hardship January 29, 2018
  • LTL 046: The Number One Priority For Every Leader January 22, 2018
  • LTL 045: How To Get The Feedback You Need January 15, 2018
  • LTL 044: Four Perspectives On Service January 8, 2018
  • LTL 043: Why Looking Forward Can Be As Distracting As Looking Back January 1, 2018
  • LTL 042: Leaders Listen December 25, 2017
  • LTL 041: Brag, Swag, or Sway: Why You Must Talk About Yourself – Part Two December 18, 2017
  • LTL 040: Brag, Swag or Sway: Why You Must Talk About Yourself – Part One December 11, 2017
  • LTL 039: The Most Difficult Person To Lead December 4, 2017
  • LTL 038: Respect: Stop Building Your Resume And Start Building A Legacy November 27, 2017
  • LTL 037: Unity: Primary Ingredient For Producing Exceptional Results November 20, 2017
  • LTL 036: Optimism: Greatness Awaits You November 13, 2017
  • LTL 035: Fortitude: Six Steps To Increase Your Ability To Endure November 6, 2017
  • LTL 034: A Consistent Trait Found In Great Leaders October 30, 2017
  • LTL 033: Your Higher Purpose: An Interview With Kevin Monroe October 23, 2017
  • LTL 032: No Excuses: Never Count A Great Leader Out October 16, 2017
  • LTL 031: Lonely At The Top: Tearing Down A Popular Leadership Myth October 9, 2017
  • LTL 030: Leading Through The Pain October 2, 2017
  • LTL 029: How To Cope With Difficult People September 25, 2017
  • LTL 028: The Floundering Founder: Character Matters For Great Leaders September 18, 2017
  • LTL 027: Your Leadership Ability Determines Your Effectiveness September 11, 2017
  • LTL 026: The Power Of Purposeful Connection September 4, 2017
  • LTL 025: Why You Must Resist The Urge To Settle August 28, 2017
  • LTL 024: Five Things I Learned At Influence & Impact August 21, 2017
  • LTL 023: Dream Stealers: Handling Encounters With Those Who Do Not Get You August 14, 2017
  • LTL 022: Are You My Type? More Tools For Building Team Trust August 7, 2017
  • LTL 021: Building Team Trust With Vulnerability July 31, 2017
  • LTL 020: The Science Of Trust: Characteristics Of Male And Female Leaders July 24, 2017
  • LTL 019: Can You Guess What Your Team Wants More Than Anything? July 17, 2017
  • LTL 018: Leading Without Manipulating July 10, 2017
  • LTL 017: Leading When No One Else Is July 3, 2017
  • LTL 016: Five Familiar Communication Challenges: Which One Will You Commit To Avoid? June 26, 2017
  • LTL 015: Leadership Advice From 30 Years In The Corner Office June 19, 2017
  • LTL 014: What To Do When Your Attitude Is Causing Your Implosion June 12, 2017
  • LTL 013: At The Roots: Leadership Lessons From A Charter High School June 5, 2017
  • LTL 012: I Do Not Need You May 29, 2017
  • LTL 011: Nothing To See Here…Move Along Please May 22, 2017
  • LTL 010: Brand vs Wild with Jonathan David Lewis May 15, 2017
  • LTL 009: You Want To Do What? May 8, 2017
  • LTL 008: Helping Women Live A Rich Life May 1, 2017
  • LTL 007: What To Do When You Are Asked To Compromise Your Integrity April 24, 2017
  • LTL 006: Uh This Does Not Look Like I Thought It Would April 17, 2017
  • LTL 005: What To Do When You Are Overworked And Underappreciated April 10, 2017
  • LTL 004: How To Get A Promotion When Your Boss Doesn’t Even Know Your Name April 3, 2017
  • LTL 003: What To Do When Team Morale Is Lower Than Congress Approval Rating March 27, 2017
  • LTL 002: What To Do When Your New Boss Is 20 Years Younger Than You March 20, 2017

Copyright © 2025 · Digital Pro on Genesis Framework · WordPress · Log in

  • Disclaimer
  • Privacy Policy